Zen, Tibetans or Power of Now?

Confusion is a very good first step.
Powerful, first step. almost always
A fantastic door opener
When we just be with the confusion.

You know, just breathe it in & out,
No-thing else, just the confusion on the
Breath.

Sorry, didn’t mean to be heady here,
Just reflecting back to when ‘Confusion’
Smacked me in the face. It was the
Beginning
For me.

Tolle is AWESOME!!! That is the beauty of it – you don't need a teacher, per se. Anything can be the teacher – this moment as it is. Share your presence with people. Trust that you will find or become aware of a sangha that already exists.

On confusion, in a book a read by Steve Hagen (I believe you have read some of his stuff), he said that in front of truth stands paradox and confusion.

Sit with it…it may shift to simply an unknowing.

Keep us posted! 

Hey there:

 There is about as much diverisity within Tibetan Buddhism in terms of approach and methods as there is in Buddhism in general.

Like all “axial age” religions, it arises from a Magic/Mythic developmental level, so you are bound to find that as you read the texts.  Various modern teachers have quite a variety of interpretations and approaches to this - from a literalist conservative bent, to a more modern, even psychological interpretation.  The same varieties of interpretations exist in all the great world religions.  For me, sorting through it all is part of the joy of it.

The four schools of Tibetan Buddhism also have different emphases.  FPMT comes out of the Gelug tradition (the Dalai Lama's school) and has their typically philosophical, reasoned based approach that was championed by its founder the great Je Tshongkhapa.

The Nyingma tradition is the oldest and although is also strong philosophically, has a strong tantric emphasis.  In the Nyingma, practice is everything, and Dzogchen (the non-dual “view”) is the pinnacle of the path.

The Kagyu school also arose at the time of the reforms that led to the development of the Gelug school and to me, always seemed to have somewhat of a middle approach between the two.

 I don't know much about the characteristics of the Sakya school, but its lineage is passed down through a genetic line, rather than a line of reincarnated (but not necessarily genetically related) lamas.

In Tibetan Buddhism the relationship with the Guru (often called the “spiritual friend”) is paramount.  There are various reasons given for this, but the Tantric aspect is certainly one of the big ones.  All Tibetan Buddhism (even that of the later “reform” schools is tantric.  And tantra is such a powerful path, and the possibilities of going off-track are so great that a teacher who has successfully negotiated that path is paramount.

One of the things that makes me so devoted to my own guru, Sonam Rinpoche, is that he shows absolute devotion to his own Guru, Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche.  Although he is my Guru, he is very humbly his guru's disciple.

When the “system” works like this it ensures an amazingly strong continuity of the pure lineage over centuries because of the close transmission of Guru to disciple.

The ultimate Guru, however, is the nature of mind itself and the job of a physical guru is to help the disciple realize that.

Although Buddhism does have the idea that enlightenment takes eons to achieve, one of the hallmarks of Vajrayana Buddhism (The Diamond Vehicle - just another name for Tibetan Buddhism) is that its methods allow for the possibility of enlightenment in this very lifetime.  The great Tibetan yogi Milarepa is traditionally seen as the paragon of this fact.  He went from being a murderer and practitioner of black magic to being the greatest yogi Tibet has ever known in a single lifetime.

 I'm painting in pretty broad strokes here, just to illustrate that the ocean of Tibetan Buddhism is pretty vast, so you shouldn't feel dispirited about the kinds of questions that you are having.  If you can relax into them and let the exploration be a part of the journey, you will probably come up with some wonderful insights.

The Tibetan approach is definitely not for everyone, and as with all “exotic” appearing traditions it is easy to get caught up in culture and lose the essence of it.  But for me, having grown up in the Roman Catholic church, the ritual and sensuous nature of the practice has been a great help in my practice.

There's a lot of stuff below, so don't be overwhelmed by it.  Its just a bit of a smorgasbord with many insights to peruse if you feel like it.

Here are some websites of Lamas whose teaching has helped me over the years.  My own path has been more in the Nyingma/Kagyu tradition, so these gurus come from that stream.  But I have also learned alot from some Gelug lamas and one Sakya Lama, Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche.

My own Guru, Khenpo Sonam Rinpoche

Here are a couple of zaadz blog posts about him:

http://rigzin.zaadz.com/blog/2006/6/training_with_a_spiritual_olympian

My buddy Kunzang wrote a beautiful poem about his devotion to Rinpoche

http://kunzang.zaadz.com/blog/2006/6/an_ode_to_my_perfect_teacher

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

His son, Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche

Sogyal Rinpoche

Lama Surya Das

Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche and all the lamas of the Chokling Tersar tradition.

Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche

Traleg Rinpoche

One more thought:

Included in the various approaches of Tibetan Buddhism are the “Graduated Path” approach (Lam Rim) and the approach, which takes the “fruition as the path” (Dzogchen, Mahamudra, some Tantric approaches.)

The excellent FPMT stuff you are looking at comes out of the first approach.  It starts from the premise that our basic nature is Buddha nature, and therefore already enlightened, but that it is stained by our past karmic deeds.  So just like a mud encrusted jewel is still precious, it first needs to have the mud scrubbed off before being recognized for what it is.  The practices of the graduated path gradually scrub off our karmic stains until our already ever-present Buddha nature shines through.

The other approach also starts from our basic Buddha nature and also understands that our realization is obscured by our karmic stains.  But its approach is to “take the fruition as the path.”  In other words, in practice and in life, we act as if we have already had the ultimate realization of enlightenment.  So in tantric practice, we visualize ourselves as the deity, the place as the palace, the other practitioners as enlightened beings, all sound as the mantra, etc.

We even take that view into our every day lives (so, for example, when someone constantly elbows me on the subway and then talks loudly and obnoxiously on his cell phone during the whole trip, I can choose to view him as an enlightened being performing enlightened activities and uttering melodious mantra sounds, instead of taking the common view and getting pissed off at him.) 

This approach is not just make-believe, though.  Again, it is our already ever-present enlightenment that makes it possible to take this approach in the first place.

Both approaches have the same goal, but tackle it from opposite ends of the spectrum, so to speak.  Your experiences with Tolle and Zen probably have more in common with the second Tibetan approach, as opposed to the FPMT stuff you are reading, which comes from the first perspective.

As a fellow member of AA I have found when I am really in the 'thick' of things it means there is still another opportunity for me to grow and then I turn inward and allow my higher power to come forward and give me insight into what's going on. I am still learning patience and know that God knows no time so there is no time line, only……now. Let go and let God. Peace and Love. You'll learn what it is for you to learn and grow.

I think the stillness/activity issue has at least something to do with what the Tibetans call Ultimate and Relative Truth.

On the ultimate side of the equation, everything is always-already emptiness/stillness/no-thing all the time.  Emptiness has as one of its qualities, manifestation, however.

That brings us over to the relative side.  On the relative side, everything is still empty of its own inherent self-existence, but we experience it as activity, solidity, etc.

When we practice we have a chance to touch that emptiness/stillness side, and for masters like Tolle, it would be possible to stay in that realization forever.  And as far as ultimate truth is concerned, all is complete and there is no need for anything beyond it (because there is nothing beyond it.)

Compassion kicks in, though and starts to nudge the great masters to get out and share their realization, so more of us can experience it too.  Thus the book toors, teaching, etc.

The great masters (and I think Tolle would probably fit in here too) understand though, that all the activity is never actually any different than the stillness.  It is just emptiness manifesting in the relative world.  I think they probably bring some of that realization along with them in their busy-ness.  i.e. they are active but with a mind-frame that still carries the deep peace of their realization of emptiness.

But from a purely personal, experiential perspective, I'm sure that for someone like Tolle, just sitting in stillness for eternity would feel great and complete.  I'm grateful that he has had the compassion to share his realization with us, because it is a great help to me.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.

 rigzin

I may not have a chance to listen for a while (but I look forward to it.)  So I'll just give a quick answer, then a more detailed one after.

 It still comes back to the question of Ultimate and Relative Truth.  On the ultimate level everything is already perfect.  On the relative level there's work to do to realize it. 

I think the point is that when we realize perfection, nothing will have changed, we'l just finally “get it.”  We'll see it as it has already been.  At that moment, we will realize that it has always been perfect and so, in that sense, nothing will have changed or been added to, or improved.

But from the relative standpoint of time, it will seem like one day I was not enlightened and the next day I was.

This exact dichotomy is not just a difference between Tolle and the Tibetans, it is a difference within the Tibetan teachings themselves.

Tsongkhapa gives us the graduated path to enlightenment and Longchenpa gives us Dzogchen (the ultimate, non-dual view that everything is already perfect as it is.)  So what you are struggling with is the big question on enlightenment that's been around forever.  (I don't know much about Zen, but I understand that these two views are present within Zen as well.  They are also there in Hinduism, from what I know of it.)

That's where, to some extent, you need to relax and allow the apparent dichotomy to just be there.  There is no logical way to solve it.  It is like the ultimate Koan.  Whatever the answer is, it won't be a mental formulation.  It will be a direct experience.

So until we have it (and maybe even after) we practice.  Because even if Tolle is right and there is nothing we can do, we can't decide to “do nothing.”  Because then we've turned doing nothing into an activity as well.

My lama says that these types of questions exist to exhaust our brains.  Eventually, when the brain is exhausted enough from all the analysis, it will just rest.  Then we'll start to have some clarity.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to listening to Tolle and conversing more about it.

Peace.

 Rigzin

i think you've hit the nail on the head.  ultimately, all the practices are just means to get us to the point of having that ultimate experience with everything that we are experiencing throughout the day.

i would encourage you to read this article by H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche: Dzogchen View of Tantric Ngöndro.  Althought it relates specifically to Ngondro practice, the essence of the article is the view that we take when we do the practice, and this is essentially what you are talking about, I think.

 Here is a great quote from it:

 “If you really look into your experience of existence with the eye of meditation, you begin to see everything as the play of emptiness. Phenomena (as referential co-ordinates) become exhausted and you finally arrive at their essential nature, which is emptiness. But, having said this, you might be led to say: ‘In that case we should not need anything'. But whether you need anything or not is up to you. It simply depends on your mind. Just dryly talking of emptiness is not enough. You must actualise it and then see for yourself. If your mind is really empty of referential manipulation, then there is no hope, no fear, no negativity - mind is free of that. It is like waving your hand in the sky. Whatever arises is completely unobstructed.

The purpose of meditation is to remain in this natural state. In that state all phenomena are directly realised in their essential emptiness. That is why we practice meditation. Meditation purifies everything into its empty nature. First we must realise that the absolute, natural state of things is empty. Then, whatever manifests is the play of the Dharmakaya. Out of the empty nature of existence arise all the relative manifestations from which we fabricate samsara. You need to understand quite clearly how things are in reality and how they appear in terms of duality. It is very important to have this View, because without View your meditation becomes dull. Just simply sitting and saying: ‘It's all empty' is like putting a little cup upside-down. That little empty space in the cup remains a very narrow, limited emptiness. You cannot even drink tea from it.

It is essential to actually know the heart of the matter as it is.

In the absolute sense there are no sentient beings who experience dissatisfaction. This dissatisfaction is as empty as the clear sky, but because of attachment to the form display of emptiness, (interdependent origination) the relative sphere of things becomes an illusory trap in which there are sentient beings who experience dissatisfaction. This is the meaning of samsara. ”

Rigzin

Cool!  Its been a long while since I've read that article.  Our conversation reminded me of it.  I've printed it out here at work, so I can read it on the street car home.  I was feeling kind of down in the dumps all day, and just quickly reading those words made a big difference for me.

Thanks for being the catalyst to remind me of it!

Rigzin

Hi there!

Just thought I would add my two bits ;)

Basically, I think Rigzin gave great insight, and to some it up I will quote him”

“My lama says that these types of questions exist to exhaust our brains.  Eventually, when the brain is exhausted enough from all the analysis, it will just rest.  Then we'll start to have some clarity.”

We need to all just relax about enlightenment.  Really. As westerners, we just spend so much time over analyzing everything, and basically forget to just be. This comes from my own daily experience of constantly reading, figuring out what it all means….etc. Sometimes I think at my level, and lot of other people's level, if we just examined our OWN MIND, and went with that……we would get closer. That is why I think both the lam rim is good, and Echart Tolle is good. If I can just be in the now, practice Bodhichitta on a daily basis, etc. I would be doing good.

On a side note, I think Ven Robina is great. I love the way she teaches.I took refuge with her myself.(at the Land of The Medicine Buddha)  Also, I have taken some of the Discovering Buddhism courses and found them very beneficial. Another great CD set is Ven Thubten Chodron's Lam Rim Graduated Path to Enlightenment. You can get it from Dharma Friendship foundation. I am not sure of the link, but just google it, and you can get it online.

Oh, and just so you know, I have had all the same questions you have, and continue to  have them!  LOL

It's nice to know that their is someone out there going through some of the things I am going through.  Our paths seem somewhat similar :)